Engaging in a thoughtful and respectful discussion with critics of the Latter-day Saint faith is often challenging, particularly when the conversation lacks nuance or context. Glen E. Chatfield's recent blog post, "Speaking Against Polygamy Brings Damnation," is an example of this difficulty. While criticism is expected in matters of faith, the lack of historical understanding and the tone of his arguments make constructive dialogue nearly impossible.
Previously, I provided a commentary on Life After Ministry’s post about polygamy, offering a contextual analysis rather than a defense or refutation. My goal was to frame the practice of polygamy within the historical and cultural realities of Joseph Smith’s time—focusing on the persecution faced by early Church members and the evolving legal framework surrounding polygamy. This analysis sought balance and fairness, acknowledging the complexities of history rather than reducing them to simplistic judgments.
Unfortunately, many critics, including Mr. Chatfield, seem to approach these topics with rigid confirmation biases. Rather than fostering open discussions or exploring historical nuance, they rely on short, dismissive posts filled with inflammatory language and ad hominem attacks. Such tactics are not conducive to genuine conversation; they are, quite frankly, designed to silence opposing views rather than engage with them.
Attempts at Dialogue
A few years ago, I’ve extended invitations to Mr. Chatfield to engage in a respectful and thoughtful discussion. These offers have been declined or ignored. This refusal to engage in dialogue speaks to a broader issue among some critics of the Latter-day Saint faith: a reluctance to have their assumptions challenged. Instead of inviting scrutiny, they often position themselves as authoritarian voices, presenting their perspectives as the sole "truth" without opening the door to meaningful analysis or debate.
Mr. Chatfield’s approach—echoing unexamined claims and rejecting contextual discussion—raises questions about his commitment to honest discourse. His comment sections, for example, appear to be filled with one-sided conversations, often under pseudonyms, that lack context, substance, or relevance. Whether these “conversations” are genuine or orchestrated, they do little to foster understanding or credibility.
Addressing Common Misconceptions
A recurring critique is that any reference to historical context is an attempt to "soften evil" or defend indefensible actions. This accusation misunderstands the purpose of context. Historical context does not excuse or justify actions; it provides the framework to understand why certain decisions were made and how they were influenced by cultural, social, and legal factors of the time. Without this understanding, history becomes little more than a caricature—stripped of depth and complexity.
For example, the quotes often cited by critics, such as those from Heber C. Kimball or the Journal of Discourses, must be read within the framework of their time. It’s important to recognize the theological and societal pressures shaping these statements rather than cherry-picking quotes to support preconceived narratives. Dismissing context entirely is intellectually dishonest and undermines any claim to objective analysis.
Critics like Mr. Chatfield also frequently misrepresent the historical development of polygamy within the Church. Joseph Smith’s revelations on plural marriage, while controversial, were rooted in a theological framework that many early Saints believed to be divinely inspired. Similarly, the later renunciation of polygamy under Wilford Woodruff was not a convenient abandonment but a response to significant legal and political pressures. These events are complex and multifaceted, and reducing them to accusations of “serial adultery” ignores the broader historical and doctrinal landscape.
Faith, Nuance, and Dialogue
The claim that the Bible unequivocally supports a single form of marriage also overlooks the complexities of scriptural history. While monogamy is a clear ideal in many biblical narratives, instances of polygamy, such as those involving Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon, complicate the conversation. These examples do not invalidate God’s commandments but illustrate the human struggle to align with divine principles. Critiquing polygamy in the Latter-day Saint context while ignoring these biblical precedents reveals a selective approach to scripture that lacks consistency.
Ultimately, productive discussions require an openness to learning, a willingness to engage in good faith, and a recognition of nuance. Critics like Mr. Chatfield, who dismiss context and rely on inflammatory rhetoric, miss an opportunity to contribute meaningfully to the broader dialogue about faith, history, and theology. Instead of fostering understanding, they perpetuate division and misunderstanding.
As members of the Latter-day Saint community, we should strive to engage with critics respectfully, providing thoughtful and well-reasoned responses. At the same time, it’s essential to recognize when dialogue is unproductive and move forward in our efforts to build bridges with those willing to engage in sincere and honest conversations.
I have attempted to engage in a thoughtful and respectful conversation with Glen. By my observation, he does seem to come across as condescending, authoritarian, and does not want to have any rational discussion. It does not seem that his intent is to foster discussion. Merely to push a narrowly defined narrative and shut down any dissent or challenges to call into question his approach.
ReplyDeleteI have also noticed that he tends to respond to "mysterious comments". Either that, he creates one sided conversation where he does not publish the comment of the individual he is responding to. Rather, he publishes his response to their comments.
I did provide a comment as follows as feedback.
"I wanted to share some feedback on your post and the way discussions seem to be handled here. I hope you’ll take this constructively, as my intent is to encourage thoughtful engagement.
First, I noticed that many of the comments appear to be self-generated or pre-prepared. While I understand the challenges of fostering discussions in a blog space, this approach can come across as inauthentic. It may discourage genuine readers from commenting or engaging because it feels like the dialogue is staged rather than organic. Transparency about this practice—if it’s intentional—might help build trust with your audience.
Second, I didn’t see any clear comment guidelines posted. Guidelines can be helpful in managing discussions while setting the tone for respectful dialogue. They also help readers understand how moderation works and why some comments might be excluded. Without this clarity, it can come across as if dissenting opinions are being shut down arbitrarily.
Finally, I wanted to point out how the tone of the post might be perceived. Some parts come across as condescending or dismissive, which can make it feel less like an invitation for open dialogue and more like a defense of a position without room for discussion. When making public statements or claims, there’s a responsibility to foster open and respectful conversations, even with those who might disagree.
I hope this feedback is helpful. I appreciate the effort you put into creating content and hope this can support an even better experience for your readers."
Not sure if he is willing to be open and transparent.
I am not sure how long ago, it has been a few years, when I initially came across his blog. I commented on the blog post. Instead of publishing the comment, he merely made his own comment. I will have to go back to see what post it was. After I attempted to engage in a respectable discussion with him - he came off as arrogant, judgmental, and condescending.
DeleteIt is sad that critics like him engage in such childish antics. It is also observable of the level of hypocrisy many of them feel comfortable in displaying. Calling people out for insulting them, claim they are being personally attacked, or their character and integrity being called into question. All the while, they are the ones committing the personal insults, attacks, and calling into question the character and integrity of those attempting to discuss certain teachings, doctrines, and beliefs of the Latter-day Saint Christian Faith.
I am open and welcoming if he or other critics want to have a rational and thoughtful discussion where there is mutual respect. I am not afraid to publish people's comments. Even those that are aggressive, hostile, and insulting. Doing so reveals more about that individual than attempting to maintain my own sense of false security and confirmation bias. Besides, if it is shown I am in error, I am more than happy to admit and address it. Most critics, from my experience, are not and merely continue to peddle lies and misinformation without any accountability and responsibility for their own attitude and behavior.
I am 100% correct that the LDS religion is not Christian. It is an illogical, science-fiction belief like Erich von Däniken's book "Chariots of the Gods."
ReplyDeleteWhen you try to excuse away the LDS racism and LDS polygamy--both of which are grave sins--as just things that were part of the culture of the time, that isn't a valid argument because the LDS say they got these teachings via direct revelations from God.
As with every other Mormon you want an audience to do your best to defend the LDS faith and excuse they away if they don't sit well with modern cultures.
I suggest you instead study articles on my blog, starting at the beginning where I address LDS "scriptures," etc. I PROVE that the LDS scriptures are frauds, the Joseph Smith was a fake as were all so-called prophets and apostles over the years.
Glenn, good of you to join in the conversation here. Nothing like seeing a comment copied and pasted from your own site. Fortunately, the burden of proof is on you to show how and in what way the LDS Faith is not a religion or a Christian faith. What evidence and rational sound reasoning do you offer to consider that the Latter-day Saint Christian faith is one that is "illogical, science-fiction belief like Erich Von Daniken's book: 'Chariots of the Gods.'"?
DeleteSecondly, no one is excusing away anything here - except from what I have observed in your way of responding to people. Reality is that the same question may be asked of you. How come you are attempting to dismiss Christian racism, genocide, and history of Anti-Semitism? All, which are grave sins?
Third, regarding culture - that is how proper research and understanding is. It involves being mindful in understanding the given cultural and social norms of the day rather than impute our modern cultural and social norms onto the social and cultural context of a given era. It has nothing to do with dismissing what happened in the Early Church. It is understanding the cultural and social milieu of the time.
Fourth, as for the reference of having an audience to "do [my] best to defend the LDS Faith" and excuse away anything that does not sit well with modern cultures is rather obnoxious and arbitrarily dismissive. It is like me saying that you are wanting a platform and audience to do your best to defend Christian faith and excuse away anything that was done in the name of God that does not sit well with modern thinking and understanding. All you merely did here is actually state the very thing I, and others apparently, have pointed out to you. Namely, using a presentist perspective and interpreting historical, socioeconomic, and cultural context.
I have taken a look through your "Anti-Mormon" blog where you attempt to expose the LDS as a false belief system. Nothing of your content is noteworthy, of substance, and bearing any relevance of truth. Easily refuted with thorough scholarly research and study. You really are not opening anyone's minds, except tot the reality that you are not being intellectually honest. And how you seem to talk down to people. It is quite telling of your attitude and behavior. That is not an ad hominem. It is based on observable fact and reality.
I have not seen anything of a coherent and rational attempt to provide any reasonable evidence to support your claim and assertion regarding the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith, and how he was a fraud and false teacher.
I didn't join your blog. Someone copied my response to a Mr. Anonymous and posted it here as anonymous and emailed me this link. So the person who did this shows how dishonest he is.
DeleteYou claim to be a Christian (as do all Mormons) but a real Christian wouldn't be supportive and defending the LDS cult. You deny the facts and truth all over my blog proving the LDS is a false religious system founded by a fraud claiming revelations from God.
I have no desire to have discussions with your ilk who refuses to accept the truth about the LDS all the while claiming to be a Christian.
Glenn. Ex-LDS by the way.
You stated: "I didn't join your blog. Someone copied my response to a Mr. Anonymous and posted it here as anonymous and emailed me this link. So the person who did this shows how dishonest he is.
DeleteMy response: That may be - however, it is your comment and so I tend to lean toward the plausibility of it actually being from you.
You stated: You claim to be a Christian (as do all Mormons) but a real Christian wouldn't be supportive and defending the LDS Cult.
My Response: What is a Christian? How does the bible actually define a Christian? Where does it say in the Bible that a Christian is considered one who accepts certain creeds and confessions? It does not. Also, a Christian is not one who bears false witness, engage in defending lies and deceptions, nor use manipulative tools to cause doubt and crisis of faith.
It is not defending a false belief - it is exposing lies and defending the truth.
You stated: You deny the facts and truth all over my blog proving the LDS is a false religious system founded by a fraud claiming revelations from God.
My response: There is no denying of anything. I present information based on research, scholarship, and current academic studies on particular topics. Nothing you, or other counter-cult ministry groups, provide is close to any modicum of truth and facts. Does not matter what you claim - what matters is what you present and how it is based on common misconceptions, logical fallacies, and manipulation of information.
You stated: I have no desire to have discussions with your ilk who refuse to accept the truth about the LDS all the while claiming to be Christian.
My Response: That is fine, you are welcome to your opinion. However, what you present is what is false. It is deceitful, and manipulative. You are not 100% correct in any of your claims or assertions. Even a cursory investigation of any of your claims show how detached from rational thought and understanding you are.